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Personal finance experts typically suggest having the big financial talk before marriage.

Having dated T for approaching 4 years (!), I think having a formal money pow-wow is completely unnecessary. I’m (obviously) all over my finances, and there aren’t secrets. He knows I have student loans (not the amount), he knows I have savings (not the amount), and he knows I prioritize retirement accounts above a cash build up (presumably, for a house). He also knows that while home ownership is not at all my dream right now, I’d be willing to compromise at a later date. He also knows roughly how I’m spending my money, because even if we don’t spend every day together, we certainly know the details of each others lives.

I know he has zero loans, a small Roth IRA, and some undetermined amount of savings. It could be $10k, it could be $5k, it could be $20k. I have no idea, but it doesn’t really matter to me. I know how he spends his money (carefully) and neither of us have credit card debt.

Why not the amounts? I’m not quite sure, but I originally refused to say the number because of his mom! She (naively) once said not to marry someone with student loans. I don’t know where that old-school thought came from. I do ” understand “don’t marry someone in a financial mess”, but paying off my student loans simply is not the best thing for me to be focusing my money on. It bothers me, a little, that she would say that, but luckily, T can see the bigger picture. Though he is debt adverse, he can recognize that college was a great investment for me. He can recognize that, even strictly financially, what I’d bring to our life together is much more than student loans. And beyond the finances, I’m invaluable. Right?

T has probably seen my student loan stuff laying around, as I don’t make any real effort to conceal it. That is ok, but it hasn’t been officially thrown out there. My student loans will never be a burden on us, nor am I going to change how I feel about him based on the exact amount in his bank. It’s something, and that is nice to know, but it doesn’t matter.

More than the amounts and various balances, the important thing is that I know his character and he knows mine. We have similar priorities and values when it comes to both money and life. We are both savers, but we believe in splurging in the same categories. Money may be the number one cause of fights (and divorce), but I think that is because most (non-pf bloggers) aren’t smart about money. We aren’t a statistic.

My thought isn’t “don’t talk about money before marriage” but rather, “I don’t plan on having an official money talk.” We have talked about various money topics as they come up, and it has always worked fine for us. In the case that money is rarely discussed, of secret debts (or secret assets), “the money talk” makes more sense.

After some consideration, I increased my food budget from $135 to $145. I found we don’t need to go out to eat that often, so I took that extra money from my restaurant budget. (However, perhaps I’m being temporarily subsidized, because the last two weekends my parents have purchased me a rather delicious meal. They will be going back home in early June.) I think sticking to $135 (or even $125) would be entirely possible for me to do without too much struggle. I’ve seen grocery budgets as low as $80 (see lunch challenge)! So why am I increasing it?

I’m tired of asking T to contribute to my weekend dinners, even if it is “fair”. I asked for a contribution this week, and he obliged with a purchase of some snack food for us. I’m not much of a snacker, but I did enjoy the nachos, and there was leftover shredded cheese for me to use. It isn’t that we actually have fights about this, but we have these annoying conversations about who paid for what and when.

It is clear (in my mind) that I’m getting a worse deal. I eat one meal a week at his place (or as many as I want to drive to get) and it is usually spaghetti or frozen pizza (boy cooking!), and he eats at least four at my place, with at least one being something delicious (that he usually helps me make). Last weekend I even served crème brûlée for desert (surprisingly cheap and easy)! Then he’ll remind me that he bought this or that the week before, and I’ll concede. He doesn’t bring it up, but he knows that I make a certain amount of money, and he is on a stipend. My net worth increased by over $2k this month, his probably increased by, at most a couple hundred dollars. Maybe it didn’t increase at all. (Well, his stipend is quarterly, so who knows this exact month)

We don’t live together, so it isn’t quite as easy as just splitting things in half. I tend to buy better food for myself than he buys for himself, so I can’t expect him to spend a certain amount just because I feel like making spring-summer ziti and don’t want to pay for all the cheese involved. He’s content eating a plain sandwich for dinner, but I turn my nose up at that. If I want to cook something more expensive that is my choice. Not his. I just enjoy sharing it with him out of love. It really isn’t much fun to cook for only myself.

It isn’t about the money at all, but about my plan. If I brought it up with him and asked for a standard $20/mo to cover the food he eats, he would likely oblige. But would I really be more satisfied? Does it really matter?   Do I really want to add a creepy banker like dynamic to the relationship?  It just seems like this something I’d be better off just letting go. I tend to get wound up when things don’t go according to my plan (it is a fact, pf bloggers have control issues!), but if I simply plan to spend a little extra, everything will be smooth.

Budgeting isn’t supposed to make me stingy and cheap, it is supposed to give me freedom!

My boyfriend randomly started up a personal finance conversation with me last night. He isn’t that well informed (though he’s good with money), so it was fun for me to share what I’ve learned from this personal finance blogosphere. Not that I mentioned my blog–it’s private for now, though I wouldn’t be horrified to share it with him.

One thing he came up with was a goal that we should try to have 150k saved up for a house in the next 3.5 years. Not that I do “SMART” goals (specific, measurable… acheiveable… see, I don’t even know the acroynm), but I don’t to dumb goals either. In fact, I invented a new acronym: Daft, Unattainable, Meaningless and Bogus! I asked if there was any math involved in coming up with that number, and he said no. He just took the date when he’d be done with grad school, pulled another number out of a hat, and said it would be a good goal for our house downpayment.

I did some quick math. Assuming I had to come up with 1/2 of that, I would have to save about $1800 a month. I could maybe do it, if I stopped saving for retirement! Besides, I’m not really all that keen on property ownership at this point in my life. I don’t even know where I want to settle! I told him that we could discuss a goal like this if/when we are engaged, but for now, I’m sticking to my own goals. I’m willing to compromise, but not just on some whim of his!

Speaking of retirement, I would like to leave you with this depressing snapshot of my 401k. I’m sure glad I don’t need this money for years!

I had three really close girl friends in high school. My senior year their was a fourth girl we spent a lot of time with as well. Of the five of us, I’m the ONLY ONE who is not currently married. I’m twenty-five, and the rest of them are about the same. Most have been married about a year, but one girl has been married almost 4 years already.

I’ve been with my boyfriend for about 3.5 years, and it isn’t a real secret to many people that I had hoped to be engaged quite awhile ago. I’m not exactly “pushing for it” at this point (does that really work anyway?) but based on conversations we had in our relationship, I honestly thought it would have happened awhile ago. However, plans adjusted, and it seems like it’ll happen eventually, but there isn’t a rush right now. People around here don’t always understand that. They think at 25, I’m a candidate for becoming an old maid. I’m willing to wait, at least for now. There certainly may come a time when waiting isn’t the right thing for me anymore, but I don’t know when that time is.

Oh, wait, is this personal finance blog? What is my point?

As much as I thought getting married ASAP would be ideal, there is something to be said for starting off a career on your own. I enjoy reading other young female bloggers, especially those who are also unmarried, and thinking how just a couple generations ago our lives would have been unthinkable. Though I admit I’ve had the emotional support of a relationship, I do rent my own apartment, pay my own bills, and really came into my own financially in a way that I simply wouldn’t have had I been legally tied to another person. I’m sure we would have figured this stuff out together, but the whole financially independent thing is something I’m a little proud of myself for accomplishing. Independence in general is something I’m proud of.

Trent over at the The Simple Dollar recently wrote about how having a family and kids has totally changed his priorities in life. Being unmarried (when most of the people I know are married) has allowed me to keep my choices strictly my own. I’m not saying that I need to hold onto that forever, but I might as well enjoy this independence while I have it.

(Oh, and even though I’m all about frugality and practical purchases, I still want a diamond engagement ring. I simply can’t help it. Do you agree?)

My boyfriend compliments me sometimes, saying that I’m good with money. He says that, but once or twice, he has added “but I’m better with it!”

I respectfully disagree with that sentiment. I’m better with money, he’s just more stingy. Also, his stingyness comes primarily from the fact that he is a grad student and has a very limited disposable income. In general, he is selectively stingy. Back when he was making a reasonable income, he spent in the range of $3000 for private pilot flying lessons. So he spends less by buying cheap lunch meat and kraft singles, and I buy better stuff. I don’t consider that being better with money, I consider that having more money and making choices, not being “worse” with money.

I think when we are married, we’ll be able to manage our finances without too much conflict. We are both generally savers, but we are both (generally) willing to spend on certian things we value: for example, travel, occasional good meals, and wine. We should make decent money, and things should be smooth. And if they are not, we both are capable of cheap living.

I hope I get to be in charge of the budgeting and bill paying. I am a control freak and like that sort of thing, but he is a control freak as well. Of course, decision making will be together (which will be an adjustment after years of independence), but there has to be one executer.

I would like us both to be involved in our investment decisions. Since I already have a full time job and he is still in school, I’m a few years ahead of him in investment knowledge. Not that I’m an expert, but I’m at relatively comfortable with the basics. He does have a Roth IRA, but he opened it with a broker. Edward Jones, maybe? I’d need to let him know the virtues of target date funds, indexing, and low fees. Right now, he only has about 2-4k in there (I don’t know the details), and I don’t know the fees, so it isn’t an issue. (Besides the fact we aren’t even engaged!)

I think, over the next couple years (or until whenever it is we get married and what is “mine” officially becomes “ours”) money might be a slight issue for us due to vast income disparity. If I want us to go out for dinner, I’m going to have to pay for it more often than not. He isn’t gonig to demand to be taken out, but he doesn’t have the funds to treat me too often. It is sort of something that I have accepted already over the last year and a half of me working and him being a student. It can be frusterating, especially when my my two closest friends from high school (who were students at the time) received coach purses for christmas last year from their signifcant others. I got a nice necklace, which is great, but it would be nice to be spoiled every now and then. Maybe he can spoil me in ways that don’t involve spending money.

I spent the week surrounding New Years Eve with a friend I rarely see (we met on a study abroad semester), our boyfriends, and another friend of hers. With the exception of my boyfriend (still a grad student), everyone had just recently entered the working world.

One night, they wanted to go to a “fancy” restaurant for dinner one night, and my boyfriend and I politely declined but offered them the use of the car to go. They graciously offered to treat us, so we agreed to come along. The bf and I politely ordered relatively lower priced items (still probably $40 each), and the others ordered appetizers and dessert (though they were kind enough to share). Dinner for the five of us was about $350, maybe more. The food was decent, but didn’t knock my socks off. The service was good, but not worth that kind of money to me at this point in my life.

Then there was the shopping. My jaw just about fell off when one girl stated that a $1000 handbag was “within the price range” she was looking for. I have no idea her salary (though I do think she lives with her parents, meaning, no rent, which helps), but it just seemed utterly unreasonable to pay that much for a handbag. Still, people do it. All the time. Just not many people that I know.

Sometimes it strikes me unfair when I see people my age spending on expensive items. In many cases, it is flat out unfair–their parents helped them through school and maybe even still subsidize their lifestyles, while mine didn’t. Very few people are wealthy by their own doing at age 24. Many people are comfortable (myself included), but having enough wealth to live the high life? Not me.

Really, it doesn’t matter if it is fair or not. Not one bit. All that matters is they are good people who don’t make me feel bad about being more careful with my money. I do my best not to make them feel bad that they do spend more money.

I think when I move to Los Angeles, I’m going to run into this feeling a lot more than I do here in the Midwest. I’m extremely down to earth, and the L.A. stereotype isn’t. I’m sure some won’t fit the stereotype, but I’ll surely meet a lot more people with piles of money than I know now. I’ll also working at a big name company where many people went to top schools. I went to state school. You’ve never heard of my school. I was smart enough for a better school, but the finances just wouldn’t have worked out. In some ways, it makes me proud of myself. I got to the same place as them, on my own, without a fancy school or lots of money. Even so, I wouldn’t have minded if my parents paid for a top notch education. It wouldn’t make me any less of a person.

Anyway,the girl who bought a Burberry towel (a towel? Why?) and a $250 watch (spur of the moment, out of spite!) suggests getting one coke at a pizza place and sharing the free refils. Too funny.